Shirley Manson Interview
From New Music Monthly, June 1998
New Music Monthly: “I Think I’m Paranoid.” Does that song title pretty much sum things up for you right now?
Shirley Manson: Yes and no. I think that’s how I was feeling during the making of the record. I mean, I was all by myself, I was living by myself in a hotel, and I had no one to really talk to. And I’d go to the studio and we’d work and I’d come back by myself, very late. And I think the whole record is, in a way, very introspective, and very kind of .. trying to reassure myself while I’m going crazy.
NMM: The companion piece to “Paranoid” would have to be the following track, “When I Grow Up.” Because in this business, you probably never will.
SM: I don’t know if it’s peculiar to my role as a musician, or just peculiar to me as a person, but I don’t ever feel that I’m going to be this grounded, mature, fully-developed person. But I think that’s one of the things about life-you never feel completely sussed, you’ve never really arrived, and you actually know so little. And that’s what the song’s about-even though you think you’re sussed and you’re smart and you’ve worked it all out, you haven’t even got the remotest inkling of what it’s all about. And you can never hope to.
NMM: Bowie once said that the older an artist gets, the more they’re faced with just two questions: “How much time do I have left?” and “What the hell am I supposed to be doing with it, anyway?”
SM: I don’t know if that’s necessarily true. Again, I think it’s unique to each individual. For him, he was so young when he achieved success so he’s had decades to sort of ponder over his existence. Whereas for me, I’m, like, 30, and I’m only just beginning as a songwriter. Technically, this is only my second album that I’ve ever made, and it’s the only record that I’ve ever made where I’ve completely written all the lyrics and come in with full songs and played guitar. So it’s still very fresh to me, so I still feel that I’ve got so much to discover and so much to travel through. I’m not like David Bowie, you know. I didn’t wake up at the age of 30 and say “Hey! I’ve arrived!” I’m still fighting to find some kind of voice, and that’s what brings a certain excitement to this record. For all of us, for once in our life, we’ve found people to create with. And that’s allowed us to make a good record, because we feel so secure around each other in a way that we didn’t on the first record.
NMM: Were you truly prepared for stardom? To quote another pop icon, Jarvis Cocker recently said that after spending a lifetime waiting for fame he had to re-examine his motives once he’d reached that goal.
SM: It’s funny, because I just read a review in the NME of his album, and I feel very different from Jarvis Cocker. I never wanted to be a star. I never wanted to be a musician, I never wanted attention, I never dreamt of being something special. Ever. I mean, it was the complete opposite for me. I expected to live a totally average, normal lifestyle, and this is something that came absolutely out of the blue for me. So it’s not like I had these aspirations and now I’ve achieved them and now I don’t know what to do with myself. I’ve never had these aspirations, and now all of a sudden this incredible adventure has been thrown upon me. Now that it’s happened to me. I don’t know what to do with it, and I think that’s probably been good for us as a band.
NMM: And the worst aspects of it?
SM: I would have to say that, for the most part, there are no drawbacks. I mean, I’ve been in bands since I was 15 years old, and I’ve slaved for at least ten years where nobody gave a fuck about what I was doing, didn’t even want to listen to what I was doing. I was treated like shit by the industry, I was treated like shit by the press. And then all of a sudden, the very same people are knockin’ at my door, being really sycophantic and saying how much they liked me and how much they loved my previous bands. And it’s like, bullshit. If you liked my previous bands as much as you say you did. I wouldn’t even be here today. It’s a curious syndrome, and I guess I was onto quite a rant there. But there are no worst aspects to what I’m doing right now, because I know how difficult it is as a struggling musician to have nobody give a fuck about what you’re doing. To me, that’s difficult. And then all of a sudden, to have somebody care about what you do, well, how can you dare turn around and say there are drawbacks to that? Of course there are tiny things that are a little impossible, a little hard to deal with. But I’ve spent my whole life dying for this, even subconsciously, even though I didn’t really crave it. So all of a sudden, I understand how great it is to make music and have people care about it.
NMM: In other places on the record, as in the song “Special” you seem to hint that even normal friendships and relationships have changed with success.
SM: It’s weird, because everyone has listened to the lyrics on this album and really taken them at face value. But to me, the lyrics are very much working on different levels. And they can be very personal, or they can be about the industry. It depends on how you choose to look at how my life has been lived. When you write songs, lyrics or melodies, I think they start off as one thing and then mutate into so many other things. And then they start to take on a life of their own, by default.
NMM: Sort of like your stage persona. Kids seem to see you as this miniskirted, platform-heeled dominatrix/sex goddess, whereas you’ve gone on record saying that none of those props mean anything to you.
SM: I dunno. It’s so hard for me to be objective about what we do and why people have been turned on by our band. I’m not totally naive. I’d like to think it was purely the music, but obviously it’s a little more than that. It’s your music and how you choose to portray yourself. I mean, I always fell in love with bands not only for their music, but for their image, their look, how they portrayed themselves. And it’s weird when all of a sudden you turn into, like, this subject. I think we made a good record and that’s why people got into it, but I also think we were very honest about our intentions, and we weren’t trying to be something we’re not. And I think people felt that. People felt that it was real.
NMM: On one version 2.0 track, you actually talk about walking into a posh party, looking at a handsome guy and instantly knowing…
SM: …that I was gonna get what I wanted! Ha! And again, that song’s kind of a metaphor-it’s very much like yes, you can recognize that power. But you should ignore it and leave it behind.
NMM: But you’ve always been fighting against low self-esteem. Where did that come from?
SM: I have no idea, no idea. And I know that my mother has read some of my interviews and been really upset – devastated, in fact – by my comments. She doesn’t understand it, just can’t comprehend where it came from. And it has nothing to do with the way I was brought up – I have a very close and loving relationship with my parents. I think that there was something in me chemically, or hormonally, or emotionally that.. well, I was a mess, I was a horror. I was a very difficult, angry and displaced teenager. And it’s kind of infected my whole life. I mean, in good ways. I’m not necessarily saying that it’s all bad. Sometimes the negative things in life can totally propel you forward. So I have no regrets. I’m not sitting here singing “Poor little me,” because I have had an amazing life.
NMM: But beneath all this, it seems like-correct me if I’m wrong-all you’ve ever wanted was to be loved. How did you finally allow yourself to be loved?
SM: I don’t even see it in those terms. I think I was always constantly wondering “I there somebody out there like me?” And I think that’s certainly why I became a musician-you’re throwing things out to see if somebody’s gonna echo back and say “I feel exactly the same!” I think it’s to do with loneliness. I think you’re looking for an echo-it’s about recognition, about reassurance, and about affirmation. I think that’swhat music’s all about.
NMM: What did you find that echo in as a kid?
SM: I didn’t find it. And that’s why I think I woke up as a teenager and felt really angry, because I suddenly realized I didn’t feel it. So I looked for it in other things, and that’s what drove me to become a member of a band. And actually singing? I think it came from desperation and fear. I just got to the point in my life where I thought, “You know what? If I don’t get this together, I’m outta here. I’m gonna have to go back and work in a clothes store.” And I didn’t want to do that, so that’s what finally drove me to be able to write in a band and to be a participant in music.